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Councilman criticizes hotel center developers

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BY DEENA WINTER / Lincoln Journal Star

Tuesday, Jul 08, 2008 - 12:33:20 am CDT

A $16 million proposal to redevelop half of a Haymarket block into a hotel and arts center took an odd turn Monday when Councilman Jon Camp criticized the developers behind the proposal.

They’re the same developers the city recently chose to develop a portion of the city’s possible arena hotel and conference center project.

Real estate developers Robert and Will Scott of WRK LLC want to demolish a warehouse at the corner of Eighth and R streets to make way for a 130-room, U-shaped hotel with retail on the ground floor. In conjunction, the University of Nebraska plans to renovate a press warehouse at Ninth and R into an arts and humanities center.

Story Photo

WKR also heads up a team called Lincoln Traction Partners that the city chose to develop a possible hotel and conference center in conjunction with the city’s proposed arena west of the Haymarket District. If voters approve the new arena, WRK would be heavily involved in the project.

The hotel and arts center ultimately gained City Council approval Monday, but only after Camp raised a long list of questions and concerns about the Scotts’ latest project in the Haymarket, the historic district he was instrumental in developing and where he owns eight buildings.

The redevelopment project requires City Council approval because it may qualify for up to $1.8 million in tax increment financing.

Camp raised several issues:

*  Although nothing has been set in stone, he opposes the Scotts’ request for a guarantee of 100 of the 409 parking stalls in the city-owned Haymarket Garage at Ninth and Q streets.

*  He questioned whether the project should get tax increment financing, an urban renewal financing tool in which the additional property taxes generated by the hotel are essentially funneled back into the project. It could be used to purchase property, demolish the warehouse or improve the sidewalks, dock or street.

*  He accused WRK of being behind schedule on another city redevelopment project, a proposed mixed use building adjacent to a new police station the city leases from WRK in northeast Lincoln.

This is the second phase in WRK’s redevelopment of the Haymarket block, which began last year with renovation of the Sawmill Building into several new offices, including theirs, and the Bread & Cup restaurant. Camp asked a lot of questions about how TIF was used on the Sawmill project and whether the Scotts had delivered what they had promised.

He said WRK projected the Sawmill Building would create 43 new jobs, but by his count, it only created three; he said most of the jobs just relocated from other Lincoln sites. Will Scott and Josh Berger of WRK disputed his figures, saying their office alone created five jobs.

Camp also questioned whether the new jobs created by the hotel would pay more than about $18,000 annually. WRK is estimating the hotel and retail development will create up to 68 new jobs.

City officials said about $267,000 in TIF was used on the Sawmill phase, primarily for electric utility improvements and streetscape improvements. Hallie Salem of the Urban Development Department said they were also guaranteed 60 parking spaces in the Haymarket Garage. She said they’ve asked for about 100 spaces for the hotel project.

“Our intent is not to take every stall, but it… is obviously very important,” Will Scott said. “We’re trying not to be overly greedy.”

Camp made it clear he doesn’t think the city should give WRK so many parking stalls, saying other Haymarket property owners don’t get such perks. Salem said the parking director has said the garage has enough capacity to offer the stalls.

Councilman Ken Svoboda also said he won’t support guaranteeing WRK so many of the parking stalls.

Camp also questioned the impact of another hotel on existing downtown hotels, saying he supports economic development, but the city can’t “give away the store to one project.” Camp also said $1.8 million in TIF “is a substantial amount” and that some council members are privately concerned at the number of TIF projects the city is doing.

“This is quite a bit for just half a block of a large area,” Camp said.

Will Scott said the hotel is not being designed to compete with the other downtown hotels, and he said the Sawmill Building has “pulled the Haymarket District a block north.” He said it’s now a new destination point that benefits Camp’s properties, the Haymarket and the city. He said the Haymarket needs more energy and vitality 24/7.

“We’re talking about existing warehouses,” Will Scott said. “They’re dry storage.”

Camp also questioned WRK’s progress on its police station redevelopment. WRK redeveloped the old Alltel switching station at 49th and Huntington streets into a police substation and planned to build an adjacent building on city-owned land for retail, housing and offices.

“You got four lots from the city,” Camp said. “There was an agreement, but you haven’t done it.”

Will Scott said the project is taking longer than anticipated because it has grown in scope and they’re trying to make the building LEED-certified rather than “a stick building with a brick front.” He said the project is “close.”

Camp implied that WRK’s plate is getting a bit full.

“You’re doing lots of other projects,” Camp said, referring to the arena and Sawmill projects. “You’re not completing what you (promised).”

In the past, Councilwoman Robin Eschliman has also questioned the delay on the police station project, and she said Monday, “We do have some concerns that have been expressed here.”

But other council members seemed a bit taken aback by Camp’s public needling of the developers. After Camp finished, Councilman Dan Marvin said, “I want to thank you for your investment in our community.”

Councilman Doug Emery said he hoped in the future such questions would be asked in “a less public forum.”

And Councilman Jonathan Cook noted that if Camp had questions about the police project, all he would have had to do is walk a few steps from his office to Urban Development, which leases space in his Haymarket building.

Camp failed in his request for a three-week delay on the matter, and after Marvin suggested Camp shouldn’t vote on it because he has a possible conflict of interest, Camp abstained from voting on the redevelopment and it passed unanimously. Now negotiations between the city and WRK can commence and their agreement will go back to the council for final approval.

Reach Deena Winter at 473-2642 or dwinter@journalstar.com.


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Rick wrote on July 8, 2008 1:48 am:
" WRK has done some very neat and unique projects for Lincoln, the Sawmill building being just one example. They are giving Lincoln and they Haymarket a much needed "facelift" in certain areas. The city is lucky to have such young talented people who care enough for Lincoln to invest their own money here. "

 Crazy wrote on July 8, 2008 2:59 am:
" This is nothing more than Councilman Camp being jealous over parking spots. How can you have a hotel without parking? If we want this hotel to be built, which any Lincolnite with a brain should, then you have to make a deal on parking. Jon Camp is protecting his interests, and he is doing nothing good for the development of Lincoln. I hope he doesnt manage to scare away the best thing to happen to Lincoln in a long while - which is people who are willing to INVEST their own money into our core. "

 dennis wrote on July 8, 2008 3:17 am:
" when will you (the city council) stop being pulled by the nose by big busniess,don't you people understand what historic means,it means OLD not new,this is just another project for big money interests,when will you start putting the interests of the people first and not big business,pretty soon there will be no OLD HISTORIC buildings left in the haymarket to go and see and enjoy,hopfully in norvember we the people will put a stop to some this nonsense. "

 Really getting annoyed wrote on July 8, 2008 4:38 am:
" There are a few city council people who just need to consider the consequences of their actions. We have a problem meeting our commitments in this city and Mr. Camp is one of the few people on the council who takes a responsible attitude toward things. Reckless spending and commitments are harming the city and tax increment financing is getting way out of hand. Development is not happening because the money isn't there and the city is falling behind on the amount of money it can and will be able to generate without raising a huge amount from additional taxes. Go ahead irresponsible people and raise the taxes and see where it gets you. Maybe a few bucks here and a few bucks there isn't all that much, but over time it adds up and there is no turning back. I get really annoyed when new members of the council throw out new and continued irresponsible attitudes toward fiscal responsibility. Remember these people will not be here when the so called new taxes hit the street, they will be long gone and sitting back watching from a distance. So you can support them if you wish, but I won't. You can not tax your way out of problems, or to say it another way, you can not tax increment finance your way out of problems, it will get you more and more and continued problems. "

 another give away wrote on July 8, 2008 5:23 am:
" Here's another example of the City giving things away with no garantees from the developers. If we do what they want then they should garentee if it doesn't meet expectations then they refund the money. Besides these are all low paying jobs "

 me wrote on July 8, 2008 6:04 am:
" WRK is getting their fingers into too many things. Just who is receiving the payoff? Not the average citizen in Lincoln. It's all going into someone's pocket instead of where is should be. It's kind of funny the only one arguing had to abstain from voting. Then it passed with flying colors. Thank you Mr. Camp for speaking out! Now if you could get the others to "man-up" and voice their opinion... "

 Unbelievable wrote on July 8, 2008 6:08 am:
" Oops! Too late. Use the platform of your elected position to influence an outcome and then avoid conflict of interest by not voting? This is bad policy, and oh by the way did not avoid the conflict. "

 WHat wrote on July 8, 2008 6:18 am:
" Ask questions in a less public forum?? That's the PURPOSE of city council meetings. "

 Terry wrote on July 8, 2008 6:38 am:
" Camp is just putting on a show. He knows the majority of the citizens are against spending a penny of tax money on this "arena-convention center scheme, and wants to make it look like he's "concerned." The fact is, he'll stand to make a fortune when it's rammed down everyones throat. He'll use the citizens opposition to this project, even though it will go forward, as a platform for his run for mayor in the future. Gottta love politics! "

 TG wrote on July 8, 2008 6:42 am:
" The city asked for it. Could have hired a true proessional but the job was instead given to a couple local rookies. This is what you get. "

 Ted wrote on July 8, 2008 6:57 am:
" I would like to thank Camp for ensuring that this discussion was public, You are city council members not part of a private club, and were talking about issues that affect the public. Emery and Cook's comments about Camp should discuss these issues in private behind closed doors speaks volumes. "

 Darrell wrote on July 8, 2008 7:31 am:
" Camp is just mad because he had vehicles ticketed and towed when he charged people to park in the alley during Nebraska football games. "

 Ros wrote on July 8, 2008 7:35 am:
" More power to Jon Camp's efforts to carry out pro-active governmental oversight in public. "

 Doug Emery wrote on July 8, 2008 7:36 am:
" IF you were watching yesterday's council meeting then you know that Councilman Camp was argumentative and out right disrespectful to someone who was addressing the council. My comment about a "public forum" was a belief that ANYONE coming in front of the council should be assured they will NOT be badgered. Asking questions is fine but attacking the speaker about OTHER projects is wrong and it may well prevent others from coming in front of the council. Don't try to turn it into something it was not unless you view the entire process "

 J wrote on July 8, 2008 7:43 am:
" Lincoln politics at it's finest..Jon will benefit from all the developement in the Haymarket area but...his points are very valid. Here comes the "money losing arena". You know the city loses about $600,000.00 a year on Pershing and nobody says a word. So you believe a new 300 million dollar arena will...I think everyone involved in the arena project flunked econ. 101.. "

 Ricky wrote on July 8, 2008 7:46 am:
" When will Lincolnites vote on the new arena?
If it gets passed the city should manage the project; don't get an entity like our MECA involved.

Ricky From Omaha "

 Mark wrote on July 8, 2008 7:56 am:
" Let em work on these other projects. The areana will not pass a public vote despite all the money and spin put on it. I have yet to meet anyone who is voting for this proposed arena. I think they know it too, that's why they have projects going everywhere else to keep busy. "

 John Q wrote on July 8, 2008 8:05 am:
" Does anybody still have the number for Mr. Hammonds? Anybody? "

 wrong wrote on July 8, 2008 8:08 am:
" I agree with Terry. John Camp is only attacking these men in a public forum because he knows that most educated people in the city understand that he is likely to make even more of a profit after this arena is built, and if he can make it look like he's really concerned about spending, people will stop putting the bullseye on his business ethics. But if you look at his past record towards the arena/hotel/convention center all along his he has been in large support for it. Come on Camp, stop being a democrat. Stand up for something and stick to your guns. either your in 100% support of it, or your not. Stop jumping the fence. One more reason the people of Lincoln would be better off with a new face in the city council. "

 GO Jon Camp wrote on July 8, 2008 8:14 am:
" I "like" the Scott brothers a lot and appreciate their interest in building Lincoln, but that has nothing to do with this. Jon Camp asked some great questions. Why are they behind? Why should they get guaranteed parking when others in the Haymarket don't? Why TIF? "Crazy" thinks Jon Camp is jealous over parking spots. . . What? Camp isn't asking for spots, he is just asking why? It is about time. . . Go Jon. "

 JB wrote on July 8, 2008 8:19 am:
" Actually, Terry, a "majority" of us younger Lincoln property owners (in fact EVERY person I know) fully supports a new arena. I'm not in tune with the old kermudgeons of this city, but those of us under the age of 60 are the ones who are going to be here for the next 50 years... and I would personally like my property value to continue to grow. The only way for that to happen is for big buisness to come here and bring high paying jobs (we don't need any more Wal-Greens and/or Runzas). And the only way big buisness is going to come is if the city takes an active role in development and progression. I fully support the Scott brothers, and admire their vision. Lincoln needs these types of people to combat the likes of "Terry" who is honestly arrogant enough to believe that a "majority" of Lincoln thinks like he does. "

 go for it wrote on July 8, 2008 8:19 am:
" Joh Camp is not always right but this time he is right on. With all the money the scotts have why do they want ours and not make any commitments. Such as if they do not bring the jobs they will return the money. And I do not mean low minimum wage jobs either. "

 russell wrote on July 8, 2008 8:20 am:
" Mr. Camp's question about the new jobs paying more than $18,000 (minimum wage) is confusing. Last November Mr. Camp was instrumental in removing non-profit organizations with city contracts from having to pay a 'living wage'. What should be the wage standard for city subsidized 'progress'? "

 Erik B. wrote on July 8, 2008 8:20 am:
" I'm sure once this hotel and convention center is completed and Mr. Camp takes a look at it, I think he'll be surprisingly happy with it. Perhaps someone will give him his very own parking spot when he tours the finishing product! "

 as wrote on July 8, 2008 8:22 am:
" Gotta wonder if Camp has the city's best interests in mind or his own. Would be willing to bet it's more self interest than anything else. "

 Outside the Box wrote on July 8, 2008 8:22 am:
" I have complete and utter trust for the good intentions of our city council, so I have no reason to be suspicious that the only person to voice these concerns just happens to own 8 properties in the area.

That probably is completely unrelated and not a conflict of interest. "

 corruption rules wrote on July 8, 2008 8:33 am:
" Camp should have recused himself. That's what you're supposed to do if you have a conflict of interest. You are required to leave the chambers and not be present, speak or vote on the issue. (Never mind having Camp and Svoboda vote on the charter amendment- refusing to put a conflict of interest item on the ballot. So much for "oversight".) In this case, if Camp had questions he could have asked them in writing which is also public record. Instead he drags hearings on and on and on - asking the same questions over and over. Does he go home and watch himself on City TV later and feel like Perry Mason? "

 Vern wrote on July 8, 2008 9:13 am:
" Jon Camp is flakier than a box of corn flakes. He is only looking out for his personal income and interest. How he keeps getting re-elected is beyond me. The old "kermudgeons" of this city would like to keep Lincoln in the 1960's but it is time to grow up and get with the rest of the modern world. "

 Cody wrote on July 8, 2008 9:31 am:
" Parking is already a huge concern for the Haymarket, just think of how bad it could be if WRK takes more stalls away from the public as well as other businesses. The haymarket is not made to handle the flow of traffic that is already coming into the area, let alone when a new hotel goes in down there. "

 RE JB wrote on July 8, 2008 9:37 am:
" Apparently you are either renting or one of the minority who are making way to much money in lincoln. How many young people who want this are in the upper 1/3 income bracket? The reason most people don't want it is because we can't afford anymore city backed plans. It always comes back to the taxpayers to support these white elephants when they don't have operating capitol. Lincoln is never going to be a place where people go to conventions or a tourist mecca. The city might pick up a few local conventions like state legion or physicians, but, for major companies to fly their people in for a weeklong convention, it ain't gonna happen. There are to many convention centers around the u.s. with a lot more things to do and see than lincoln. Can you imagine a company with 5000 employees saying "let's go to lincoln nebraska so we can sitesee in the after hours. They even have a state capitol to tour". No, this thing is a pipedream that the taxpayers will end up supporting. Can you say Ag Center three times without smiling? I think most younger people can only think that maybe a arena will bring in major acts. Not concerned about the rest of the people who just don't want it. "

 Outsider wrote on July 8, 2008 9:38 am:
" Thanks, Jon Camp. As someone who lives between Denton and Lincoln, I'm glad someone is leaning on developers to do what they are supposed to do. Everyday I take West Denton road and see what a mess it is because promises were made and never kept. I say don't give these guys any more projects until they make good on promises already made. Simple. "

 Mark wrote on July 8, 2008 9:39 am:
" Funny how it's the younger people who are all for an arena, but I suspect most of them don't even own any property. It's always easy to say let's build it, and someone else will pay for it. Youthful ignornace.
JB, Terry is right. Most educated voters and property owners ARE NOT supporting the proposed arena. I talk everyday with many people, and have yet to hear any support for it. It's just to costly in these uncertain economic times. The city and county are already proposing tax increases this year. You can bet LPS will soon follow. If you think the majority of the city supports this, please show us your "facts" to back that up. A few people claiming to support it on local blogs IS NOT a majority by any stretch of the imagination. "

 dewboy wrote on July 8, 2008 9:48 am:
" The council members better start watching handouts on TIF and question how it (TIF) effects schools. Glad to see Camp asking questions about a major development at a PUBLIC hearing. That is much better than the Council arguing for over an hour about which direction a stupid street will run. "

 BYOB wrote on July 8, 2008 9:50 am:
" Big busness already took our historic buildings and fairgrounds away, give them the rest of it too. This city makes me sick. "

 So much for Historic Haymarket wrote on July 8, 2008 9:51 am:
" This is what they get for hiring amateurs. I salute Camp for standing up and making some valid points. Now all of you fans of the new arena go and read through all the concerns again and double that for the ones for the arena. I seriously can't think people think the arena will be a good idea, just shows what people know about business and development......NOTHING. Get a clue Lincoln this is all a terrible idea. Lets clean up other areas before we start tearing something that is all ready nice. "

 Tired routine wrote on July 8, 2008 9:56 am:
" Do I sense a bit of envy from Mr. Camp. He should be happy that these gentlemen would take up more parking spots thus requiring more people to park in his. Jon Camp being concerned about anybody but himself is laughable. Besides being a curmudgeon name one positive thing Mr. Camp has done for the city while self-serving in the council chamber? "

 Disappointed in my city wrote on July 8, 2008 9:56 am:
" It's too bad city leaders can't show some respect to local young talent who are interested in improving our community. Shouldn't we be encouraging young entrepeneurs to stay in Lincoln and invest in the community? When the city council treats young investors so poorly, it sends a message that "you're not welcome here." In the future, I wouldn't be surprised if the Scott brothers and other developers decided to invest elsewhere. I have lived in this city for decades, and I have never seen this foolish city so determined to cut off its nose to spite its face. "

 CS wrote on July 8, 2008 10:01 am:
" Oh wahh about your tax increases. Im so tired of listening to the establishment in Lincoln moan about their property taxes going up 1 fricken cent. It is your fault that it has stayed as low as it has for years and now you are older an on a fixed income and still want to drive on roads and call the police and fire department, but don't want to pay for it. Thanks-ill just pay that for you. I'm younger (31) and own property, thank you very much, and many of my close friends do as well. We are educated across a broad spectrum of disciplines and stay in Lincoln despite the fact that we could make more elsewhere. If many of you would take your collective ire to where it is really needed, LPS, you might actually get some relief. Instead, you shoot down and shout down anything resembling something that someone younger than 50 might enjoy but wont muscle that collective political activism at something that actually needs to be changed. They should raise it 2 or 3 cents to make of your years of your selfishness. "

 Stacy wrote on July 8, 2008 10:07 am:
" Hey Mark, I'm 29 years old, gainfully employed, own a home, and I support the arena project. Kudos to Dan Marvin for calling out Camp and his self-serving monologue. Seriously Camp, have you ever heard of recusal? Jon Camp truly is a disgrace to the political arena and althought I am surprised that he is continually elected in Lincoln, I take solace in knowing that he isn't electable elsewhere. "

 Not in support of Camps antics wrote on July 8, 2008 10:13 am:
" As a young property owner I do not support a convention center, how ever I do support a new arena. I believe that the Mayor should raise the mill levy more than he proposes. I live in a modest home and well within my means. I dont drive a fancy car and have a lot of outstanding debt. I am not keeping up with the Joneses. Like I said I will be in support of a new arena so long as the Mayor can come up with a plan that will repair our existing infrastructure. Police/fire/ems and good roads are more important than seeing a show. Although it didnt generate a lot of blogs I was very interested in Mark Koehlers opinion piece about going to an income tax and getting the city away from the LPS property tax nightmare. It would be a great way to recoup monies given to the county moochers. One only has to look at Haymarket Park and see the possibilities of a new arena. It is truly a gem in the entertainment vacuum called Lincoln. "

 Eric wrote on July 8, 2008 10:16 am:
" Jon Camp needs to go. His time on City Council has been too long. Why do people still vote for him? We need fresh blood and ideas. "

 Anyone else wrote on July 8, 2008 10:25 am:
" if it was anyone other than Camp, I might put some stock into the points raised. WRK is a competitor to Camp in many respects, he stands to lose alot if WRK is doing well in the Haymarket. Camp needs to bit his tounge until the right moment and this was not it - more grandstanding. "

 JB wrote on July 8, 2008 10:31 am:
" "Funny" is the fact that we are on the lower end of our 30s and my wife and I own more then one property in Lancaster county. And actually, it was Terry who made the outragious claim that "majority of the citizens" are against a new arena. I simply rebutted that everybody I know are in full support of it. We were also in full support of the smoking ban... while many of you continue to complain about that. Lincoln's older residents are afraid of change. It's obvious by such inconsequential things such as changing the color of our liscense plates, or dropping the county number designation. "

 JoBeth wrote on July 8, 2008 10:41 am:
" I wonder what the economic impact is on all of the property Camp owns in the Haymarket? Conflict of interest I do believe. "

 Yup wrote on July 8, 2008 10:43 am:
" Why should the city owned parking garage have to guarantee parking for the hotel? If you want to build a hotel in that area, then provide parking for it without counting on exsisting structures. If I were a business owner in the Haymarket area, I'd be concerned too. If my customers can't park to shop and dine, they'll go elsewhere. "

 Huh wrote on July 8, 2008 10:57 am:
" If there's not enough parking for a 130 room hotel, how the heck is there going to be enough parking for a convention center and arena? PEOPLE, get smart and voice your opposition now before it becomes a more of a waste of money. "

 Artical wrote on July 8, 2008 11:10 am:
" I do wish Ms.Winter would set the record straight when writing a non-fiction newspaper artical.First the "City" didn't pick the Scott twins to develope the convention center and arena...the Mayor did.Second the Scott twins are not accused of being behind in their police station development the ARE late!Third they haven't "created" any jobs...zero but just relocated jobs a grand total of 5 not the creation of 43!
If the Haymarket is such a destination why are there any available parking spaces to "give" to anybody? When did any part of Lincoln become a 24/7 town?? How much TIF money did Mr.Camp recieve when he invested in the Haymarket when it was a destination for only bums?? How many parking spaces did he recieve for his buildings at taxpayer expense??
Why should homeowners,renters and business owners pay a property tax increase only to have that money re-invested in a hotel owner by two politically connected "developers"?
Lastly what less public forum should these questions be asked in? I believe that Mr.Emory,Mr.Marvin,Mr.Cook and the Mayor need to come terms with the fact that they work for ALL of the citizens and the citizens don't "WORK" for them and as such these are the types of questions that should be asked more often in a public forum! the afore mentioned may want to revisit the concerns of the Dallas company that builds arenas and convention center all over the country and examain why they said "We have never bid on a public project that was surrounded by so much secrecy and we have built them all over the country"
In closing I believe Mr.Marvin should be thanking Mr.Camp for investing in a "blighted" area of Lincoln's oldest neighborhood long before the Scott twins ahd fallen off their "big-wheels" for the first time! "

 Arena support here wrote on July 8, 2008 11:29 am:
" I'm 47 and fully support the arena and any developments for Lincoln. I'm more in support of keeping the young professionals in town rather than make this a mecca for retirees. I'll alway think a penny increase is NOT enough to assist the city budget. It has been lacking in funds for years. It's discouraging reading so many of the "QUIT TAXING ME TO DEATH" crowd...YOU are in the minority, not the supporters of city advancment.

And, I have property in town valued at $550,000 so I'm well aware of the property taxes in this town. It's not cheap, but it's not the worst in the country either, so quit making it sound like it. "

 To JB and J wrote on July 8, 2008 11:44 am:
" The City isn't building a convention, they are building an arena. The convention center at the Qwest Center has failed to generate the sort of income the arena there has, and thus Lincoln is only attempting to build an arena that can replace both Pershing and Devaney.
The Qwest Center has been one of the most profitable arenas in the U.S. recently, and most of the recent arena studies here have shown the city can build it without public taxation.
Pershing loses money because it is completely inadequate and beyond repair. I can't imagine anyone wanting to the city to pay tens of millions to attempt to remodel and repair it, when it would still lose money because it wasn't designed for 21st century concert tours and events. "

 To Doug Emery from Roger wrote on July 8, 2008 12:04 pm:
" So it's OK to pull a "stunt" like you did with the Hyvee liquor license, but it's not for Jon Camp to ask pointed questions from a developer? Interesting.

Also I always find it funny when a few people get on here and post that the "majority" of Lincolnites are going to vote this way or that way. I think when the arena vote comes up the "retireds" who know how everyone is going to vote are going to be very surprised. "

 Mrs. Johnson wrote on July 8, 2008 12:28 pm:
" The convention center and much of the Haymarket are in a flood plain. Did anyone pay attention to what happened this spring and summer in Iowa? Beautiful old cities with half their downtown buildings under water. Take a drive over to see the aftermath. It's an eye opener. We all pay over and over for this stuff. Call it TIFF or whatever. It's our tax revenues paying for things that shouldn't be built where there being built. "

 SB wrote on July 8, 2008 12:59 pm:
" First; the Haymarket garage only fills to the first level on a normal day and fills to the second level on a busy Friday night. 100 more people looking to park means more parking revenue for the city. Second; the warehouse being torn down is not historic, just old. Third; you’re property taxes don’t go into TIF, the development’s property taxes go back in TIF. Fourth; WRK’s developments provide amenities to businesses your typical business owner salivates at – they are developers, not business creators. Fifth; I think you all need to stop forming your own uneducated guesses of what this arena/convention is before deciding you hate change. "

 J wrote on July 8, 2008 1:06 pm:
" Look at who opposes these things that are benefiting the Haymarket and Lincoln communities. It is the people on the city council who have interests in that property. I thought they voted to abstain from these conflicts of interest. Camp owns a lot of property there, and Eschliman has real estate signs all over 9th St. downtown. I am sick that these people keep getting elected to the council. I will never return here once I move away because of these type of people in power. Why doesn't the Journal Star do any investigating on how the council will gain from anything that happens there. Mr. Svoboda, Camp, and Robin Eschliman seem to be gaining with their votes. They need to be ousted. Mr Emery and the minority on the council who oppose them are always called out even though they actually fight for the city and not themselves. "

 Oh please people... wrote on July 8, 2008 1:18 pm:
" Please go to ticketmaster.com and look at all the big acts and how the schedule a tour. If you honestly think an act is going to go from KC>Omaha>Lincoln your insane. I know you all may love Nebraska but everyone else does not. They want to get out as soon as possible. It is hillarious you actually think an act is going to do a 2 day run here. You have now idea how the entertainment business works so don't act like you do. Can we say Pershing 2? The arena will pull in C list artists and will sell 1/3 of all tickets. The Haymarket gets busy during a Saltdogs game what will happen if there is a concert and a sporting event? Wouldn't want to be in that traffic! And we will have to rename the Historic Haymarket to " We wish we would have never built this Market Market". The Scott brothers are amateurs at best and this will be a huge failure. "

 Try selling alley space wrote on July 8, 2008 1:28 pm:
" Sour grapes from the Camp supporters. He didnt get public financing, parking stalls and the like. This just proves the point the J Camp and crowd are in it for themselves and themselves only. Can we please find a fresh candidate in his district? I am tired of the old money, east Lincolnites trying to rule the city as if it were England. "

 Facts wrote on July 8, 2008 1:46 pm:
" The convention certer in Omaha is the one losing money not the Arena. But that doesn't mean Lincoln should build an arena. Remember way back when they started the consultant stated even if we build the new arena the City would have to subsidize it too but MAYBE not as much as they do Pershing. So my question is, if we still have to put more money into a new arena why build it. If the Chamber, 2015 and DLA think it's such a good idea let them build it and maintain it. "

 Bubba wrote on July 8, 2008 2:19 pm:
" How dare anyone question the intentions of the Scotts! They are contributing to Lincoln. What did some of you think they were actually in it for the money? "

 Douglass wrote on July 8, 2008 2:27 pm:
" Folks, this is nothing new. Remember Douglas Theaters? Remember the Grand and the TIF used to fund it, plus the demolition of the buildings in the area? I'm sure you also remember Douglas' sale of their theaters? The city gave them a ton of incentives, so they could up the value of their company to make it more lucrative to sell. Having a city-supported monopoly didn't hurt the sale, either.

The problem is that an arena will not bring the money to Lincoln that we need. What Lincoln needs is business and industry to bring jobs which, in turn, will bring the need for entertainment venues. The proverbial cart is before the horse on this one.

If the City of Lincoln (Mayor and Council) made as much incentive for industrial and/or businesses to move in, the city would be in better fiscal shape.

Another big problem Lincoln has is that a giant chuck of land in the city is for State facilities (Capitol, UNL, State Fairgrounds, East Campus). The city cannot tax that land. The "benefit" is that we reap the money spend by those who inhabit and use those facilities. Unfortunately, that is not the same as property tax, which is sky-high to accomodate these areas. Based on Lincoln Police calls to local bars during college season, I'm sure a lot of the money washes out.

Property taxes are stupidly high. I have a friend that lives in Maryland. His $250,000 home (in a comparable to Lincoln area) has an annual property tax rate of $787. In Lincoln, my home that is valued at $122,000 has an annual property tax bill of $2,400. Ummm...okay.

These are some reasons that taxpayers and property owners cry "foul" to these "improvements". "

 Arenahotel wont work wrote on July 8, 2008 3:23 pm:
" Des Moines is a much larger market than Lincoln and there arena is struggling. They too thought they could build one a little smaller than Omaha and pull it off because they have Arena Football and Hockey. BUT THEY ARE LOSING MONEY!!!! Lincoln won't have hockey or arena football in this thing at the level that Des Moines does. Des Moines metro area is three times the size of Lincoln and they are centrally located in their state and two hours away from any other large Metro area.

Lincolnites, learn from Des Moines... you can't compete with the big boys in Omaha and KC. Right now big concerts often either pick one or the other facility to go to. Lincoln will not be a third. And to add to that the new baseball facility in Omaha is expected to hold large outdoor concerts during the summer months and there is a new 9,000+ seat ampitheater to be built just five blocks north of the quest for smaller acts.

You have no chance for a 15,000 seat arena to work in a small market that is within 1 hour of one large facility and 2.25 hours from another. "

 J wrote on July 8, 2008 3:31 pm:
" Jon is a businessman who knows how to make money..he just wants some answers and is getting the ol "salesman talk" I don't blame him for being a skeptic. The arena will be attached to a convention center...we all know it..the Chamber of Commerce and the CVB also know it.Why can't the downtown politicians and the 2015 just come clean..the public is not stupid..they are sick and tired of subsidizing the Lancaster Event Center,Pershing Center and most citizens are upset about the State Fair going to GI. When this arena...convention center hits the ballot box..what will it look like...? Pandora's Box ! "

 Doug Emery wrote on July 8, 2008 3:46 pm:
" Roger, I have NO problem with Jon Camp ASKING the questions but I DO have a problem with the way he went about it. I will say again that people have a right to expect they can come to speak to the council WITHOUT be attacked. Sometimes it is not the message but how you deliver it. There is no excuse for anyone trying to intimidate the speaker simply because they have differing opinions. There is a big difference between asking questions and badgering and that line was crossed yesterday. I don't think anyone benefitted from the parties having the disagreement on Channel 5 for all to see.

As for the "stunt" with Hy-Vee, I am sorry you feel that way. I simply attempted to represent my constituents. Amazingly in my discussions with Hy-Vee no one ever mentioned it. I believe if you talk to Hy-Vee's leadership they will tell you all of our discussions were professional and, ultimately fruitful for both parties. Additionally, even though I voted against Hy-Vee on their liquour licence I did NOT attack the person who spoke to the council about it. "

 In response wrote on July 8, 2008 3:54 pm:
" To Doug Emery, I totally agree with your comment in this forum and think its very accurate. At the same time, its good that you are sitting on the other side of the fence on this one to show you how the HyVee problems looked and can correct such action in the future. It was good to see you speak up for the right thing on this subject. Camp needs to go. "

 dewboy wrote on July 8, 2008 4:49 pm:
" PLEASE look up a previous article concerning the Omaha mayors visit to Lincoln and READ his statements in the article. It states, ONLY ONE income projection out of SEVERAL sources succeeded regarding the ARENA AND CONVENTION CENTER. Also, the article did NOT say there would be a charge for the 100 spaces requested by the Scott bros. "

 Investigage Camp wrote on July 8, 2008 5:34 pm:
" Someone should do a historical piece on the process Camp went through when acquiring property in the Haymarket. Most know that he took advantage of the City including Urban Development and Public Works making a great deal of money at the expense of the city. The city is probably still paying for his deal making including the rent they pay him for housing Urban Development . . . "

 kerryk wrote on July 8, 2008 6:13 pm:
" breadandcup is a new restaurant in the sawmill development. We have about 20 employees (more than the three quoted by Jon Camp). These jobs did not move from another location, but were created last August when we opened the doors for the first time. In all our dealings with WRK, they have been very helpful, forthright, and made sure we made decisions that would encourage our success. I do not think we would be where we are today as a restaurant with out WRK working with us as property developers. "

 Dont buy into arena wrote on July 8, 2008 6:28 pm:
" Do your own research on this downtown development/arena project. It is pretty easy a 5th grader could do it. I'll give you it step by step: 1) check the arena schedule for the sprint center over the next 5 months. 2) compare that to the arena schedule of the Quest Center over the next 5 months (remember that creighton takes many of the dates from November through February) 3) Compare those two Des Moines Wells Fargo Arena schedule.

Notice anything???? Yeah... they progressivly have less events scheduled with Des Moines having hardly anything in its arena besides a few B-list acts! And the Des Moines arena serves a much larger area (Cedar Rapids, Iowa City, etc etc) than Lincoln besides it's 600,000 metro area due to being 2 1/2 hours from the next large arena (quest).

I'm telling you lincolnites, don't let these Scott Brothers, the mayor or Vision 2015 fool you into thinking this thing will get paid without raising property taxes. And it's not just building it, but the continual maintenance and upkeep will cost the city millions each year besides financing of the initial debt. "

 How Campy wrote on July 8, 2008 8:37 pm:
" I just keep voting against Jon Camp but I guess more people in my district like his behavior. Either that or they don't pay attention and end up voting for the easiest name to read on the ballot. The parking thing is ironic though. The reason I have quit going downtown is because parking is either expensive or impossible to find. Living in Salem Oregon, my wife and I used to spend more time downtown than at the malls because parking, even in the garages, was free. Of course with UNL, free parking in downtown Lincoln will never happen. So, downtown businesses, put your hope on conventioneers who are a captive audience. Mr Camps Haymarket investments will pay off even better for him and the average Lincolnite will fair no better than before. This city belongs to the powers that be, not the citizens. "

 Dont buy into the new arena wrote on July 9, 2008 9:23 am:
" I agree with you 100%. If people honestly think large acts will stop here AND Omaha you may need your head examined. "

 Arena Lesson wrote on July 9, 2008 10:12 am:
" This has been discussed over and over and either people don't read, can't comprehend, or don't pay attention. I'll try again. Arenas rarely, if ever, make any money. THAT'S NOT THE POINT! The purpose is to draw people surrounding business so that THEY make money. This then puts cash in the city coffers, indirectly. I doubt anybody anticipates it will be booked 24/7, and nobody "in the know" is expecting to compete with the Quest Center or Sprint Center. Nobody involved has made any quise that there would be no tax involvement, either. YES, there will be some tax money that will have to go towards it, just like we pay now for Pershing.

It's true that it's the importing of businesses and industry that grows the tax base, that's not rocket science. The idea is that if you have a city with modern amenities (i.e. arena, convention center, University affiliated research centers, etc.), that it will help to attract new business and young business people. One of the things business look at when exploring to expand to new locations is "can they convince potential employess to relocate to City X"? What will give them incentive to do so? Right now, there is none.

I will gladly donate more property tax to benefit the future with this.

Does this help? You're welcome. "

 Smart person Arena Lesson wrote on July 9, 2008 11:17 am:
" Your explanation is valid and correct.

Was anyone around the Haymarket this past weekend when 6000 people visited the "Bob" for religious activities? Amazing how many restaurants and ice cream shoppes were full with visiting people. I'm sure UNL didn't make a killing on the rent for that activity, but the businesses in town were grateful.

It's all about growth, and I want to be a part of it. "

 Lincoln Taxpayer wrote on July 9, 2008 11:51 am:
" I'm not against an arena...I'm just against the powers that be trying to shove it down our throats in the Haymarket area. There are so many things wrong with the location, I don't know where to start. Just suffice it to say, if the location is the Haymarket, both my wife and I will be voting "no". "

 Arena a no go wrote on July 9, 2008 12:19 pm:
" How is an arena going to attract "business" this day and age???? What are large companies in Lincoln going to do with it? Play their company pickup games?

Seriously, unless the arena gets cut back to 10,000 with the option of adding 3,000 seats much like the quest added seats, I see no reason to build it in the next 10 years. After that maybe, but not now when the city needs to concentrate on finishing the antelope valley project, working with UNL and the research park, developing/constructing the east main sewer line running along stephens creek for future housing/economic development and many other projects that have been sitting due to lack of funds.

An arena is the last thing on many residents lists. Just put it to a vote, it will be put down 70-30. And it will lose by that or a greater margin because many (25,000+) of the "youngins" that go to concerts are not registered lincoln voters due to being in college or cheating the system by not paying wheel tax/higher insurance for being a lincoln resident like they should after living here 90 days. "

 To Arena lesson.... wrote on July 9, 2008 12:35 pm:
" how are those businesses going to make money when they (the arena) can't book any acts to come? Think about it there buddy. Instead it will sit there like Pershing not doing a thing. "

 just like wrote on July 9, 2008 1:32 pm:
" Those people who are trying to push the new arena down our throats are just like the County Board. Build a new jail. What you gonna do with the old jail? "I don't know we have to hire a consultant to tell us". What are you going to do with Pershing? They did hire a consultant who is now coming up with alternaties. Only one making money here now is the consultants. "

 Ever been wrote on July 9, 2008 2:43 pm:
" to a act at Pershing? They are usually full and have no problem with the draws.....but the Pershing also looks terrible inside, it looks like its ready to cave at any moment. If you are in the business of booking traveling entertainment, you know that if points ABCD&E are all being hit, that leaves point x open as a potential draw. Alot of people thought that Omaha would not be able to compete with KC, but they have and have done well. "

 UNL wrote on July 9, 2008 3:19 pm:
" Coach Osborne thinks the arena is do-able. I think I'll side with his knowledge on this. He certainly wouldn't believe that if he thought it wasn't good for Lincoln. He spoke at length recently at a Rotary club meeting about it.

Now THERE'S a smart 70-ish year old. "

 Buck McIlvey wrote on July 9, 2008 7:25 pm:
" What planet does Jon Camp live on? Seriously....people who use the Ride for $5 can't drink pop or smoke? How extreme or twisted does your world view have to be when you are on City Council and you perpetuate such over the top stereotypes of social services? What will smart, progressive, business leaders think about leadership in Lincoln when they see the embarrassing histrionics and statements coming out of the mouths of local stalwarts like Camp, Eschliman, and Colby Mach? The same Colby Mach who indicated the 1 cent increase in the prop tax levy, which would cost the ave home owner $15 A YEAR, would fall too heavy on those who owned more expensive houses? OK, I own a house worth $300 grand so my yearly prop tax bill will increase a grand total of $30 dollars? I think I can swing that Mr. Camp. As a Republican business owner, I have to say that we need less help from Camp, Eschliman, and LIBA, and more help from Svoboda and Spatz. Speak up boys, someone has to demonstrate that Republicans are more than a buffoonish stereotype, making fun of social services and discouraging young businessmen who want to invest millions in the City. Can someone pull Mr. Camp, Ms. Eschliman, and Mr. Mach aside and have a few words with them, because before you know it, we'll have a Council stacked with Dems and we'll know who to blame. "

 Rick Poore wrote on July 16, 2008 4:30 pm:
" This certainly looks like a case of conflict of interest. If you think elected officials like Mr. Camp should be forbidden to have business dealings with the city then I encourage you to sign the petition that would put this matter on the ballot.
You can sign at 2630 North 27th or pick up a petition and circulate it yourself.
We need to make sure that people who are elected are in it because they believe in public service, not personal gain. "

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